E6. A Medieval Pilgrim's Tale

Prepare for an epic and final journey as host Victoria Jenner embarks on her last sleepover adventure with renowned historian, Helen Carr. Together, they venture to the ancient All Saints church, perched atop a hill overlooking the murky River Parrett and the remnants of a long-lost Benedictine abbey. As they approach its foreboding stone walls, their eyes are drawn to the imposing west tower, adorned with grotesque gargoyles ominously referred to as 'Hunky Punks'. But it is not these eerie carvings that hold their attention for long. No, it is the east window, boasting the largest collection of medieval stained glass in all of Somerset. The vibrant colors and intricate designs depict the saints in all their majesty, their expressions ranging from fierce determination to serene tranquility. This is a sight that will forever be etched in their minds as they bid farewell to this sacred place.

And if you’d like to become a medieval pilgrim for a night or two like many of our guest speakers, why not give champing a try? For everything you need to know about Champing™ visit: https://champing.co.uk/

The champing season happens in those warmer months, between March and October, so book now.  

Thank you for joining me on my champing adventure. This Nights in the Nave podcast has been written and produced by me: Victoria Jenner. My guest has been historian Helen Carr, and special thanks goes to: Fiona Silk who runs ‘Champing’ and our champing assistants. Big thanks also go to Michael Carter from English Heritage, and the English Heritage custodians at Muchelney Abbey who were so accommodating, plus we cannot forget to mention Paul Adamson from the Somerset Levels Stargazing Society. Sound recording was managed by Leigh-Anne Beattie, editing by Jamie Reed Sounds. Music by Nick Varey and design by George Allen. 

This has been a Churches Conservation Trust original podcast – come to a sleepover at our place! 

Chapters

• 0:00 "Three suns rising in the sky"
• 2:52 Exploring Muchelney Abbey
• 10:29 Meet our guest: Helen Carr!
• 18:56 Stepping inside All Saint's
• 27:13 Langport during the Civil War
• 28:25 Chaucer and a spot of stargazing
• 37:03 "Sweet dreams" says the gargoyle
• 38:15 Morning reflections
• 41:36 Credits

Transcript

And I think around the time that much of the development of this church there was this, they believed that they saw three suns rising in the sky, which was supposed to represent the three sons of York, which is at the, you know, beginning of the Wars of the roses. So you had, you had Richard, George and Edward later.

Edward IV and that was the hope. You know, it was this sort of thing. Well, we saw three suns rising in the sky. That's an omen that these, you know, the three sons of York. And I mean, who knows what that could have been? It could have literally just been, as you say, some kind of celestial event.

Welcome to the champing podcast. You may be thinking, and what sort of word is that? To which I answer it is a combination of the words church and camping, and it amuses me no end. Champing is a unique concept of champing overnight in historic churches brought to the world by the Churches Conservation Trust, the national charity protecting redundant churches.

Over 10,000 of happy campers have stayed in their churches that are dotted all over England. So in this podcast series, we embark on our very own sleepover, but with a twist. Each week I invite a new sleepover guest to join me, Victoria Jenner, to spend a night within ancient walls. Together, we explore the secrets of a new church and the mysteries it inspires.

Climbing atop a steep hill looming over the rural village of Langport in Somerset stands All Saints Church. Our church for this last episode. It is an impressive building, boasting an immense tower and a multitude of what is called hunky punks. And so this church was built in the late 15th and 16th centuries mainly, but it is still a testament to this grand late Middle Ages heritage.

The east window is home to the biggest collection of stained glass in all of Somerset, illustrating the saints in all of their gloriously coloured robes with animated and peaceful demeanours. So it is fair to say that All Saints Church is as enchanting as it is, or inspiring to celebrate its medieval identity. In our last episode of the series, I am joined by some great speakers historian Helen Carr, local astronomer Paul Adamson.

He will delight us with a session of stargazing, and we also welcome an English heritage expert. So let's travel back to Langport. In the late Middle Ages.

So I'm so excited to be here. I've just been dropped off by a taxi and it's very, very remote. And I'm at my Cheney Abbey, and it's otherwise known as the Great Island Monastery. Muchelney Abbey lies in a watery landscape which I have come to via winding country roads. It is two miles south of Langport and 20 miles from Glastonbury, and was once a thriving monastic site, yet now sits in ruin, remote and quiet, like a little island in the centre of the Somerset Levels.

I spoke to senior properties historian for English Heritage, Michael Carter, to learn more about the history of this site. And if you go outside, there's nothing left of the church. There's just this imprint of a church. You can see why the Anglo-Saxon church was quite diminutive, quite small. When you see what it's replaced by after the Norman Conquest, and building works continue on the church right up until the 14th century, it was probably being remodelled, gosh, into the 16th as well.

A lot of the cloister buildings are gone as well. For instance, the chapter house where the monks sort of gathered for their daily meeting, and above it would have been the dormitory range. But what we do have to meet is an incredible sequence of buildings which was used by the abbot, including his, what we call his parlour or his chamber.

And attached to that was a kind of long gallery that would have connected his hall and his chambers with the monks dormitory in the East Range. There are two wonderful kitchens created out of a single kitchen in the 14th century, around about the time when monks get the right to eat meat a few times a week. And I think that would have necessitated the creation of a meat kitchen, as well as a kitchen for use on other days, though, the Rule of Benedict, which regulated the life of Muchelney - very strict.

It says that monks can't eat meat in the refectory, so they get around by that, by not eating meat in the refectory, by eating it in another room, which you might be able to see it much only as well as a room that used to get interpreted as just a lobby, or at one point a bit like a Roman villa, the summer dining room.

And actually, in fact, I think it was probably the misery caused by the monks eat meat three times a week. I needed a separate kitchen for that as well. It's wonderful, wonderful warm stairway leading from the ground floor of the kitchen range, adjoining where the misericordia is, and leading up this wonderful staircase with a little tent at the top leading to the Abbot's parlour, which I think probably would have been used for ceremonial occasions rather than, for his daily, relaxation and leisure.

As this wonderful fireplace in it, this wonderful ceiling, probably original to the room from around about 1430 to 1450, and some fragments of stained glass, medieval stained glass in the in the windows, including the monogram of an abbot there in the 15th century, and indeed elsewhere. Muchelney you can see these fragments of medieval stained glass possibly reset from the church or elsewhere.

And then also in the long gallery I talked about just a few moments ago, some absolutely wonderful wall paintings imitating expensive textile hangings. And some of them show the influence of the Continental Renaissance, but surely was no backwater. And that's also shown by the remains of the cloister. Only the south range remains, but its wonderful cloister, which would have had fan vaulting, or the pattern of Gloucester Cathedral, a small monastery.

We're only talking about 2030 monks or so. That's pretty okay, actually, for a Mid-ranking monastery in the late Middle Ages. but boy, was it architecturally impressive. And it also, I think, would have been spiritually impressive as well. Yes, there were ups and downs. For instance, brother John Langport, who in the 1450s is admonished by the local bishop, the Bishop of Bath and Wells, for his gluttony and drunkenness and for swearing by the limbs of Christ.

But more than balancing that is evidence of the spiritual vibrancy of the monks, and it very quickly becomes embroiled in the 1530s. In Henry the Eighth dissolution of the monasteries, the King and his chief minister, Thomas Cromwell, stop meddling in the affairs of the monastery. In the 1530s, the elderly abbot just isn't up to it as far as Cromwell is concerned, and he gets replaced by a young chap who may well not even be old enough.

So to be properly elected. Abbot, you've got to be at least 25 years old. And there are some claims he hasn't reached what's called a canonical age anyway. Muchelney comes to an end in 1538. The church and many of the cloister buildings are immediately reduced to ruins. And in fact, they're not rediscovered until the 19th century.

Well, another building that survived the dissolution of much will mate was the monastic latrines, or, to give it its medieval term, the necessary where the monks would go. Monks were meant to be very, very regular. The Rule of Benedict, which, governed life at. And actually they said that monks were to attend to the necessities of nature between the early morning offices of matins and lords, and to do so.

To do that they built a very, very large block, the monastic latrines and the necessary or the rare daughter as it starts to get cold in the 15th century, and it survives the dissolution of the monasteries. And you can still see the fittings where the monks latrine bench would have been partitioned off. But the strict rules about how monks were meant to behave whilst sitting on the loo, and decorum was meant to be observed at all time, and the waste would drop down or go to the floor beneath into a drain.

Now, despite the watery landscape, much of it doesn't have a stream running through it. It was supplied with water by a conduit, and that just didn't have the force to flush the loos. As was the case, a lot of other monasteries, such so these five arches where the monastic servants every so often would have had to go in with a shovel to make out the latrines that would have been valuable fertilizer for the monasteries crops.

And so I decided to explore the thatched monks lavatory, the only one of its kind in Britain.
 

Oh gosh, yes, there they are. And now there is a slight, a slight sort of, window, which means that everyone would have seen your behind if that was the case. Now, I mean, it smells considerably better, I'm guessing, than it would have done back in the day.

So I've just been walking through this lovely town of Langport, and it's absolutely thriving with people, with shops. It's lovely, but it's still retains this medieval character, which is which is really special. Oh, so I'm just walking up a very steep hill to the church, and for someone who I would like to think is quite fearful of running, even for me, it's quite tiring.

Oh, I can see it now in inside. Finally, let's get in and say hello to Helen. I can see Helen. Hello, hello, hello. How? Meet you. Lovely to meet you too. How was your journey here? it was good, actually. It was really good. I managed to get. I'm writing a book at the moment. I only managed to actually get some writing done.

Something about writing on trains. I feel very productive. Helen Carr is an award nominated writer, historian, and podcaster specializing in medieval history and public history. She is also the author of best selling book the Red Prince John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, which was published in 2021. So tell me when you first look at the church, what do you what do you see?

Well, I think like lots of churches, you see all the layers of history and you see, how they have been restored and repaired and, you know, it's like every century makes its stamp on a church, isn't it? So you have little features which identify it to a particular era, and then you've got additions. So, I think some of this church has definitely got some 19th century additions.


And I think the, the tower looks particularly new. I think that's definitely been restored. I mean, beautifully restored, insidious phallic gothic elements to it. But it is 19th century stone. It's so much lighter, isn't it? Contains light. yeah, it is, and it's, it just looks much, much neater and much less weatherbeaten. And so that's quite clear.


But then you have these little sorts of features that I love about churches. Whenever I go to church, I look for them and there's these little corbels which are these little heads that sort of poke out from the, from the, from the walls, particularly around, around the windows and this, this lovely arched window here. And you've got a couple of these really well-preserved corbels.

I think one of them might have been restored, actually, on, on the right side, but on the left this and they start, you know, all the rain over the, over the centuries has sort of eroded the stone. And you just get really just this sort of very basic features of a human face. And I think that that does remind you of the, of the humanity attached to these places and how they were very much, part of, of people's lives and lived experiences.

And I think that that is that's a wonderful thing, little feature in churches that I love to look for. Absolutely. And you get men and women, you know, it's not just men on these corbels, not the faces of just men. You get female faces, and you get gargoyles and you get some wonderful expressions. but I like to compete.

You detract from these fantastic beasts. But I think it's the sort of everyday people that I like to see. and you know who they might be attributed to, whether it's the master, master Builders. often that's the case that, you know, they'd be modelled on people who are actually involved in the construction of the church or members of their families.

And I think that speaks to the things I really love about churches, these intricately carved figures jutting out from the corners of the pinnacles, their grotesque faces twisted in serene and elegant expressions, hark back to Lady Margaret Beaufort, who was once lady of the manor and a major political figure in the Wars of the roses. The portcullis a strong, heavy grating that can be lowered down with grooves on each side of a gateway.

To block it. You usually find the more medieval castles. This held special significance for Lady Margaret, her son Henry the Seventh, and grandson Henry the Eighth, who all used it as their emblem. The presence of these carvings and symbols hints at a rich but bloody history tied to these very walls of this ancient fortress like church. So for this is, could you just explain what is medieval, what is the period?

And can you give a bit of context to the time? That's a really good question. Some people, I mean, some people would start a medieval period literally after, the collapse of Latin Christendom. So you're talking a really long time ago, like sixth century. In the period that I studied, the period of medieval history, I study, I would call, the early medieval period to pre-1066.

In say you're talking about the Saxons, the Vikings up for me, that would be more early medieval, but then you'd have, high medieval. Late medieval would be from 1066 onwards, which is the period I study up until probably I would say, I for me, it's probably, the Tudors, the rise of the Tudors, the Reformation, probably pre pre reformation.

But for some reason, in my mind, the latest medieval goes would probably be Henry the Seventh. There's something about the, Henry the Eighth and the, the Reformation that sort of takes, takes it into the early modern for me. So it a period it's a really big period. And the thing is, there is no real definitive, you know, time.

And it's a bit of a misnomer. People kind of just call, you know, they some people take medieval into the early 17th century, which I think is not quite. I wouldn't go that far. But for me it is very much that, yeah, I would say stopping around the Reformation, if not before, the suppression of the monasteries seems like quite a good definitive point to stop that period.

Yes, I think so. I think it's when you had a lot of, you have a lot of scholarly, thinking that was starting to emerge with the rise of the, of Luce, and, and figures like that, but really through all of the traditional ways of practicing, faith, it really threw it into a different light and really threw people.

And it really embarked on what I would call a series of wars of religion that occurred, into the early modern. This church is dated back to 1280, and it was a chapel of Huish Episcopal, and it has a stone carving from the late 12th century, on its south door. That is very emblematic of this period.

And we know that anti-clerical knowledge also preached in the chapel and the churchyard was recon secreted after being defiled by bloodshed in 1415. Do you know more about this period, like what was happening at this time? Yeah. So the art movement started to emerge in the later 14th century, particularly under my uncle John Wickliffe. He was a theologian from Oxford, and he started to get support in the royal family.

So you had quite a lot of the higher order members of nobility starting to support this idea and of, of of Lord and he was actually dubbed the flower of the Reformation. So it's really the seeds of the reformer thought were around Wickliffe. So it's this idea that the Bible should be translated into the vernacular. they had real problems with clerical wealth.

So you see the sort of pattern that comes into the later Protestant movements. That's kind of where it emerged. And initially, people, I mean, people always had a problem with it. It caused a massive rupture within the church. And obviously the Catholic Church really, did not support this movement. It was not in their interest at all to support it.

but it didn't it didn't cause so much, angst and bloodshed in the 14th century. It was only when it started to gain pace and become a real threat to the Catholic Church, later into the 15th and 15th century. And then obviously, when you get figures that later in the 16th century who are having the same, you know, bringing out the same ideas, that it became a real problem in the, in the wars of religion started.

So it had its roots in the later 14th century. But yet, like all these wars of religion, when you have to opposing schools of thought over something that is so personal and deep rooted within, what it is to be to be human and alive in the medieval period, it's going to result in this sort of bitter conflict.

Like anything in history when it comes to religious thought, as has done as time went on, Langport was still considered a chapel of Jewish Episcopal, but during the 16th to 18th centuries, the town officials tried different ways to improve church services. They hired organ players and singers and even paid preachers to give talks or sermons, and in 1670 they even made a plan to march together to church every Sunday to encourage people to attend.

And that's fascinating that we have part of that history, part of that narrative being brought to life in this very spot and inside this church. Should we go in and have a look? Yes, yes.

Stepping inside All Saints, one is immediately entranced by its sheer size, and we marvel at the tall medieval stained glass windows that stretch to the rafters. The soft coloured light spilling in from these windows creates a peaceful atmosphere. Padded camp beds and bucket style chairs are set up in the south chapel, along with a storage chest for bags and other items.

A few strands of fairy lights, battery candles and lanterns light up areas of the chapel and adds to the warm ambiance. So I think I was talking outdoors before, and it's something I really love about churches. As we all doors and keys, you really do get impressions. of people who have walked through this doorway, often in these in these doors by all these different marks.

And there's this, there's this church, near the English Scottish border that actually still has its marks from the Scots attacking the church, and it's still sort of indented from probably from the late 1330, 14th century. So I always look at doors and see what you can, what you can find and just, all of the markings and the and you've got all of this beautiful kind of foliage decoration.

So yeah, I think doors are a wonderful part of the church that often are sometimes like the oldest parts of a church as well, and sometimes overlooked. I think if you're just seeing is of the Gateway Inn. But I mean, here it's interesting because it almost replicates, window tracery, just. Yeah, it does. Exactly. And then it sort of ascends up to this, as you say, this foliate.

Yeah type imagery. It's beautiful. And then coming in this lovely vaulted ceiling, which I think is 15th century, there are other parts of the church which are also steeped in late medieval grandeur. Helen has indeed noticed the south door, adorned with intricate perpendicular paneling and delicate foliage carvings, which leads to a stunning interior featuring a fan vault ceiling reminiscent of Saint Peter and Saint Paul's Church near the ruins of Muchelney Abbey, dating back to 1490.

More remnants of the late medieval era can also be found throughout the church, from the now blocked priest's doorway on the chancel south sides, the ornate be carved wooden ceilings, complete with intersecting beams and intricately detailed, says and let us not forget about the octagonal font, an impressive piece that replaced an old font stone which church wardens sold in 1589 after it had been lying waste in the churchyard.

But, you know, originally, in the medieval period, the church would have been elaborately painted. There would have been all of these different scenes of the life of of the life, the Passion of Christ, the life of Christ. it would have been such a vibrant experience would be smelling incense. it would be, it'd be more noisy because you'd get more people in here.

it's definitely, you know, it's been obviously in the Reformation, everything was whitewashed and things were plastered over. But you still find, some beautiful medieval wall paintings also that have survived, over the centuries in these sorts of places. So, thinking of it in that sense as well, is, is quite extraordinary. I suppose it's similar to the stained glass.

And this has this church has several beautiful stained glasses. and I think all of that is really meant to evoke the sensory experience of being inside a church, particularly for people living in the medieval period, because, you know, when they walked into these places, it was meant to be. You are in the realm of God. It's supposed to evoke every single sense within you.

That's why you have the, you know, the incense and you've got the bright, the bright lights with the stained glass and the colors on the walls, and the chanting, I can imagine it just being this incredibly evocative experience. and then you've got, you know, all of the very personal physical impressions on churches. So every element of a church, if you look closely, has somebody who has invested in something within it.

And part of that was to, have an enduring legacy within a church, because that was a way of, committing yourself to God. It was also, you know, minimizing your time in purgatory by giving money or giving alms to a church. And people would set up chancery fees or even simple things like having, you know, dedicating pews to churches or building a window.

and obviously people wanted to be memorialized in churches. And we're standing on an example of that. There's all of these, monumental brasses and all these memorial brasses in there, in the floor and in some of them are stone. But sometimes you do get the actual, surviving brasses as well. I mean, we're surrounded by quite a few.

Yeah, yeah. 1234, five. Nice. Around ten these 17th century, you've got someone who died here in 1665 that could potentially have been a plague death. Maybe, because obviously the plague was 1665. the 17th century plague was not the 14th century plague. but yeah, I think there's an interesting fact about the I mean, the ones with stone in here are stone.

But in some of these churches, you do get the brasses. And talking of plague, and brasses and possibly the reason for these stones as well, for some of them perhaps, is when you have so many people who are dying of plague who want to be memorialized, a really quick way of doing that for the people who could afford it, was to use brasses rather than actually build stone monuments, because they literally just didn't have the craftsmen to build enough stone monuments for the people who were dying and needed to be memorialized.

Well, on that rather macabre and chilling note, let's reflect on the fact that the church is indeed a living testament to the power and influence of two prominent local families, the Stuckey's of Stuckey's Bank and the Patriots. As Helen has noticed, their legacies are etched into every corner, from towering stained glass windows to intricate war monuments. As the sun streams through the western window, it casts a golden glow over the final resting place of Walter Budgets, who you may know as the famed economist and constitutional expert who died in 1877.

So just, you know, thinking about the, families that dominated regions when William the Conqueror came over in 1066 and he bought, you know, hundreds of these Norman barons, he granted them all land across across the country. So you have some of these incredibly old families, who were rooted within a particular area. And their money and their wealth and title and privilege sort of filtered down through generations.

And you really do see examples of it in these spaces, because these the spaces that they invested into, if they weren't castle building, they were building churches. That's why you have so many of these, Norman churches that were surviving because the Normans did go on this, you know, mass of, church and property building. well, project really, I mean, they, they, they built so much around the country that still survives today.

I mean, obviously the Tower of London being the most famous one. but churches are something that, that they did invest in heavily. And so you do get these little sort of, snippets of detail in these churches as to who some of these families were. And if you trace these families back, a lot of them have French names or they sound slightly French.

And that's because they came over with William the Conqueror. Normally just to navigate everybody. We're going to walk now towards the pews. And this is book quite special about this church. We do still have the pews here, whereas in most churches now they've even, been removed because it's damp or they're rotting. But if we move round here to the other stained glass windows to the transact, we can find all of the champing materials.

So we have our brilliant camp beds here all laid out. I've got my eye on that hot water bottle. You know, I think it might get a bit cold tonight.

Those streets thought to be built by Romans for safe passage over River Paris. So chaos during Oliver Cromwell pursuit of retreating soldiers in 1645, it became a trade hub thanks to Stuckey and Budget's river trade, making it the busiest and most desirable location in town. Pubs and beer houses flourished to serve boatmen and traders, including the infamous Langport Arms, which underwent name changes before settling on back to the original title.

Tonight we find ourselves in one of Bow Street's many historic pubs.

Right, so we've just had a lovely meal you enjoy. Your food is very nice. It's perfect. I feel like it was the perfect sort of meal. I think a cold, cold evening. Hopefully it won't be too cold. We do have our wooly socks. I and I think this is I. I get quite attached to it, so I have to pry it away from you.

Yeah. And I just make me think. Just want to sitting here within this quite. It's quite an old looking building. Is it really like it. There's been of course, a lot of restoration work in here, so we can't exactly date it. But it made me think, well, how did medieval people respond to what I thought? Like, was there such a thing as a pub back in the medieval period?

Definitely. I think people very much like to commune and have a few drinks. lots of drinks, I mean, lots of sources. usually a cool round. It's actually a very drunk and disorderly and stupid thing. They've had a party, likes to drink like there was a peckerwood. If somebody arguing to get grenades in a parliament, falling in and drowning started.

So John, you know, sort of seems to be in and talking of hilariously drunken accidents, our conversation very naturally turns to Geoffrey Chaucer, well known for pulling together The Canterbury Tales in the late 1300s, he was seen as a patron of sociability and good cheer. He usually depicted archetypal characters like the drunken Miller Robin, who requite the Knight's Tale.

He is just one of Chaucer's Pilgrims storytellers who gather in the Tabard Inn in South Walk, just south of the River of London, to go on pilgrimage to Canterbury, where Chaucer was. I mean, he was sort of the jackal trades when it came to what he writes there. Obviously he would write these incredible pieces. Christ like wild cats next to Canterbury Tales, which were, you know, we all know very well.

But he also was very interested in science and one of the pieces, flat rate, was a treatise on the astrolabe, which is a device. It's like a two dimensional device to basically map the celestial sky. The stargazing is something that was considered an art and science in the 14th century, and people took it very seriously. So yeah, I'm looking forward to doing well.

So shall we head back to the church and give it a go? Yeah. Why don't we head back up the hill to All Saints? A ten minute walk, and we are struck by the star studded sky during the medieval period, astronomy or astrology, as the two terms were interchangeable at this time, was a major focus of study for people.

Unlike most people today, the average person had a vast knowledge of celestial phenomena with limited access to tools such as clocks and almanacs, and charts depicting the movements of the stars and planets. People relied on their very own observations to guide their daily routines. This is my colleague Helen. Nice to meet you. How are you doing? Right. This is Paul.
Hi. He was very kindly come down there and he's only two minutes away, which I found, which I feel so much better about because I thought if you were traveling across Somerset joking about what they said, they'd probably. If it's good, use any. I'm staying. So who best to experience reading the night sky? And with the chairman of the Somerset Levels stargazers, Paul Adamson.

I mean, we are pretty much away from all of the lights now, directly above. Yeah. Because what would you say now? And, you know, looking they should be looking for other kind of that direction to sort of this the south east, you see a really bright object in the sky and that's Jupiter. Oh yeah. And it's unmistakable.

And actually, what's next month is what they call opposition. It's when it's opposite the sun from the earth, midnight. The sun of the fifth of England's, so I see a appearance for the year. And the great thing about Jupiter, if you've got a telescope, you can see the there's, like equatorial bands. It's got storms on Jupiter.

You can see the great red spot. Wow. Even with a pair of binoculars like you've got here, you can see the four major moons, which are io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto. And it's interesting. We watch those each night because they change position. You can kind of see the idea they're orbiting, you know, around the, around the planet.

And that's just with the pair of binoculars. And I mean, you where you've got two pairs of binoculars here. Can you tell us a bit about them. Yeah. So I've got one pair which should I completely object? One. We make excellent telescopes and binoculars. I bought these for 85 pounds. I said about that that 20 years ago now.

So hundred pounds you spent hundreds on. Not just thousands, but the other end of the scale. I also have a pair of ten by 50 binoculars from Lidl, which costs 14.99 pound. I mean, when visibility isn't great, like we have a bit of clouds here tonight, it can be a bit difficult to see the expanse of what's on offer here.

So I'm curious. I this if it was YouTube free resample and then behind that you see the constellation of Taurus would be rising towards the bull. Yeah. You see, the Pleiades is seven sisters star cluster six. I'm a medieval historian, and, and, I'd be interested to know what you think. People in the Middle Ages, particularly before, you know, the advancement of scientific knowledge about what the stars were and how they managed to kind of use the stars, I suppose, as a way of calculating where they were in the world at the time, the sort of the seasons.

It's funny enough, I did it to begin this year, a couple of years back. We do talks about swimming meetings. We have a lot to look for in the night sky in the months ahead. Yeah, talk by a member of our committee or guest speaker and then all the latest news at the end. The one Sunday that a couple of years ago did a talk about Stonehenge.

Oh yeah. And the point of view, was it an ancient observatory. And also in the respect of, you know, you're right, they knew when that star left the horizon. That's when we plant this. Oh, yeah, that's that which I think they took very seriously. You know, something that really governed the way people existed through the seasons, and they used the stars in the same ways.

We as use see the months now. They would sort of chart like where you were. And then we, we kind of shielded that now. And with the, you know, light pollution, things like that. Some people never seen the night sky. So you did rely on all the other things to know what time of year is, what season it was the stars, you would just know by that.

And that's all the most natural way. Yeah. Somehow humanity has changed the mid in the Middle Ages they were always looking up, whereas now it feels like we're always down about, you know, every day or every day. Lives is very, very different to how it was back then. And also things like eclipses and comets and things like that.

Even in city to medieval times, they were kind of signs of danger would do. and, and strangely enough, I mean, the one that appeared, Halley's Comet in 1066. Yes. Was in the bow tapestry and always precipitated the coming of the Normans like so. And I'm always envious. And no longer did you realize that comet Neowise, the last this comet, was just off the pandemic.

Oh, so interesting, I said, but you know, there's nothing in that. Yeah, it's funny how these things slide tied from that. So you can imagine the people at the time didn't understand that it's just nothing to do with anything but to then it must mean something when I. Exactly. And I think around the time that much of the development of this church, there was this, they believed that they saw three suns rising in the sky, which was supposed to represent the three sons of York, which is that the, you know, beginning of the Wars of the roses.

So you had the you had Richard, George and Edward later Edward the Fourth. And that was the whole, you know, it was this sort of thing. Well, we saw three suns rising in the sky. That's an omen that these, you know, the three sons of York. And I mean, who knows what that could have been? It could have literally just been, as you say, some kind of celestial events.

But in their minds, that precipitated this really big juncture in their political history. As we say goodbye to Paul and get ready for the night ahead, we ponder on how astronomy was experienced by the medieval person. Bless you. Thank you very much. It goes well. Anyway, thank you very much for by.

Goodnight. Goodnight. I sleep well. You too. If you don't get scared by the face up ahead. Oh, yeah. That's the sort of creepy, ceiling raise at the slightly weird gargoyle type face in it. I unfortunately, I can't see it now. That's good. Yeah, since the lights have been turned off. Yeah, exactly. It's like, got his tongue sticking out, hasn't he?

And looks very green. Man lights some great. Hopefully we won't have any dreams about green men. See you in the morning. See?

Morning. Everyone would go and.

How did you sleep? probably better than I thought I would. I think it was a very light sleep. I definitely woke up a few times, sort of aware of where I was and or strange noises and actually just how echoey it is. You know, the tiniest sound really echoes and really amplifies everything. Yeah.

Why don't we head on out? Yes. I mean, you can see so much more in the morning light. I know exactly, you know, actually, I did notice when I was coming out earlier to brush my teeth, that there is a tunnel like this is 12th century, this frieze that's above the doorway. and it's got, it's sort of a it's a pretty.. Like I wouldn't say it's particularly decorative, but it's beautiful and it's incredibly simple, and it's the Agnus Dei who's the Lamb of God? if you look really closely, it's got a little halo around its head, the crucifix at the centre, and it's, enclosed with a circle with two angels flanking either side. and then I think these are two, probably two saints, but because of over time and weather and, age, they've just been sort of.

So, you know, spins quite weatherbeaten. So you can't really see any particular detail. but even though it's fairly rudimentary, it's just really beautiful. Absolutely. I mean, as you say, it's quite minimalistic, but the fact that it still survives today and you can still see what the depiction is, the relief is still there. Yeah. It's remarkable to think they've survived all of this time since the 12th century.

Yeah. So this would be probably one of the, you know, one of the earliest parts of the church. And I think we were talking about that yesterday about how these doorways were often sort of part of the medieval construct of the church. And if you think about how parts of the service happened here, you would, you know, this would be a fine example of what people would be looking at was, you know, as the service being conducted for them.

So I think that's really lovely. a lovely thing to notice in the morning light, especially as it stands out, particularly that orange sandstone. That's quite, you know, unique to this particular church. Absolutely. And we have these big oak doors open, and now we're walking out into the churchyard, and I mean, wow, look at that view. It's incredible.

I didn't really know some miss, like, lifting off the, off the landscape. It's beautiful. It really is. And we can see in the distance more Chaney Abbeys tower, I suppose. Yeah. So that's incredible. The fact that this this road, the rolling landscape, all of these. But we are very much set above everything, aren't we? We're on a hill.

We start our day early and head out to Langport for some breakfast. This lovely town is full of independent businesses, with the high streets a past nominee for Best British High Street awards, it is really bustling this morning with a local farmer's market installed in the main high street, which is where we now find ourselves. And do you feel that that as a medieval historian, that you feel connected to the church or you've seen it in another way?

Yeah, definitely. And I think, you know, it made me think about the common practice of pilgrims and traveling these, really popular pilgrim routes. Has churches would be a safe space for them, how they would come and they would rest in churches, of sleep in churches. So I suppose it's sort of going back to the roots of, of what a church used to be to people, in the Middle Ages.

Amazing. Well, please come back soon. I promise I'll do that. And if you would like to become a medieval pilgrim for a night or two, like many of our guest speakers, why not give champing a try? For everything you need to know about champing, you can visit: https://champing.co.uk

 The champing season happens in those warmer months between March and October, so book now.

Thank you for joining me on my champing adventure. This Nights in the Nave podcast has been written and produced by me, Victoria Jenner. My guest has been historian Helen Carr, and big thanks also go to Michael Carter from English Heritage and the English Heritage custodians at Muchelney Abbey, which was so accommodating. Plus, we cannot forget to mention Paul Adamson from the Somerset Level Stargazing Society. And special thanks also go to Fiona Silk, who runs champing and all of our champing assistants. Sound recording was managed by Leigh-Anne Beattie, editing by Jamie Reed Sounds, music by Nick Varey and designed by George Allen. 

This has been a Churches Conservation Trust original podcast. Come to a sleepover at our place.

Follow our host on instagram @victoriajenner_history