E4. An Arthurian Knight to Remember

Join host Victoria Jenner on a mystical journey to St Cuthbert's Church in Holme Lacy, Herefordshire. Immerse yourself in the legends of King Arthur as you enter this enchanting church filled with ancient artifacts and grand monuments to his knights. Let the story of Archibald Lucas-Tooth, a fallen soldier from World War I, inspire you as you discover more hidden treasures within its walls. Don't forget to look out for carvings of mythical creatures and even a mischievous pup who seeks adventure just like you. So hit that play button and travel back in time to the heart of Camelot.

If you would like to make some memories, why not give champing a try? For everything you need to know about Champing™ visit: https://champing.co.uk/

The champing season happens in those warmer months, between March and October, so book now.  

Nights in the Nave has been written and produced by me: Victoria Jenner. My guests have been Professor Joanna Parker, and special thanks goes to: Fiona Silk who runs ‘Champing’, our champing assistants and Sian Esther Powell from Wheal Martyn Museum and Win Scutt from English Heritage. Sound recording was managed by Leigh-Anne Beattie, editing by Jamie Reed Sound. Music by Nick Varey and design by George Allen. 

This podcast is brought to you by the Churches Conservation Trust.

Follow Victoria Jenner on instagram for more historic adventures: @victoriajenner_history

Chapters

• 0:00 Looking back 5000 years ago
• 2:30 Speaking to a Droll Teller
• 8:11 Travel to Arthur’s Stone
• 15:24 Arriving at St Cuthbert's Church
• 20:27 Tintern Abbey read by Adrian Mcglynn
• 21:37 An Anglo-Saxon called Cuthbert
• 31:05 The Green Man in Fownhope
• 35:08 Sir Galahad
• 43:12 A Good Knight's Sleep
• 46:58 Credits

Transcript

If you imagine a ceremony going on, say it May day or the solstice or something like that atop a stone. You have to imagine the children running around and people trying to keep order and people probably making offerings of some sort. We don't know at this stage what kind of gods or spirits they had. What they believed in.

Was it the kind of animistic religion? How did they understand afterlife? Why were they putting the bones of individuals into these monuments?

Welcome to the champing podcast. champing is the unique concept of camping overnight in historic churches brought to the world by the Churches Conservation Trust, the national charity protecting historic Churches at Risk. Hundreds of happy campers have stayed in our churches that are dotted all over England. So in this podcast series, we embark on our very own sleepover, but with a twist.

Each week I invite a new sleepover guest. Join me, Victoria Jenner, to spend a night within the ancient walls. Together, we explore the secrets of a new church and the mysteries it inspires. This week, I invite you on a mystical journey to Saint Cuthbert's Church in Holme Lacey in Herefordshire. Nestled beneath gentle hills and overlooking the River Wye.

This enchanting church is home to numerous ancient artifacts hidden within its walls. Enter King Arthur's court and behold the grand monuments to his knights of yore. This church is saturated with history, but none more so than the mythic legends of King Arthur that have been immortalized here. Further and discover more carvings from ancient times adorning medieval souls. Look closely for mythical horned creatures, men, and even a mischievous pup who seeks adventure just like you.

Be sure to take your time when visiting, as you may find yourself captivated by all things related to legendary King Arthur and reputedly his birthplace. So what are you waiting for? Let's travel back to Victorian England.

Sian Esther Powell is not only a curator at Wheel Martyn Museum in Cornwall, but a social media and podcast sensation posting under her handle Celtic Sean. I always go to her whenever I have a question about folklore and the mystical side of history. Hello, Sean. So your whole sort of identity, I suppose, on TikTok, on Instagram, on your podcast, it's all revolving around folklore, myths, legends.

Do you think it's important to have an understanding of folklore when you're exploring a landscape? You know, well, I think that's an interesting question. I don't know if it's necessarily important to understand folklore. If you're exploring the landscape, though, I do think that it gives you an added understanding and, you know, appreciation for it. But I do think that having an understanding of the landscape is integral to understanding folklore and one of the reasons why I love folklore, it's that it really roots you to the landscape. There's so many parts of the stories that we connect with that are still landmarks today, you know, or places that are named after myths and legends and things like that. So I don't think the end of all people out there exploring the landscape, you know, need to be big fans of folklore.

But I do think if you have an interest in myths and legends and you love kind of getting out and about and walking and exploring, then that knowledge of folklore can give you an added extra element of kind of wonder when you're walking around the landscape and you live in Cornwall, where the landscape is absolutely beautiful, so you'll you're living with this sort of maritime identity surrounding you.

Do you think that's inspired you? I think it really, really has. I, I don't want to get too sort of pretentious about it, but there's something about, if you've grown up sort of right next to the sea, and especially in a place like Cornwall, which is a sea peninsula, you know, we're surrounded on three sides by the sea.

It does get under your skin somehow. It does become part of your identity. And I think going for dog walks and just kind of, you know, doing things like sea glass hunting and little activities around Cornwall, your backdrop is drastic, beautiful landscapes, you know, the cliffs, the sea behind you. Cornwall has such an array of landscape as well.


You know, you've got marshes and fields and woodland and all sorts of other things. And I do think it's been a massive influence on my interest in stories just these places that have what feels like a little bit of magic to them. I absolutely adored living in Cornwall, and I think my favourite myth was The Mermaid of Zennor, which we have spoken about before, as I always go to you as you are my guru when it comes to folklore.

Yeah, I think at the time you're like, you're like a modern drow teller, and I've just taken that with me. Thank you. Okay, I, I'm very I, I'm so happy that I've influenced your identity in that sense because that was the whole essence of that like episode that you were in for that documentary. And I think you are absolutely.

And give a lot of storytelling now, is that right? Yeah, I do a lot of storytelling. So it's so I've started with the podcast, so I do the Celtic Myths and Legends podcast, and you know, I do a little bit of analysis of various folk creatures and stuff like that. And then it kind of naturally evolved from that, evolved to actually doing storytelling sessions, you know, doing presentations and Q&A and then starting to do like proper storytelling sessions and, yeah, I just love it.

I it's so exciting. I can't wait to come along to one of them. And why do you think the Celtic periphery so Como, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, why do you think they specifically hold so much connection to to myths and legends and specifically Arthurian legend as well? I think you'll find one thing I love about folklore in particular. It's not like some of the same types of myths and legends and story beats.

You can find them around the world. So you can find similarities in cultures around the world. But I do like to trace some similarities between sort of Celtic nations as well. But I think folklore plays a really key part. And I think the reason why folklore is so important is because I guess it's another identity marker, isn't it?

Folklore as a way to be able to connect to landscape, be able to connect to old festivals, be able to connect to food and that sort of culture and language. And I think that by the Celtic nations, I suppose, like you know, Wales, Cornwall, Britain, out of mine, Scotland, Ireland, they've got to be able to have a strong sense of place and story.

It helps to, enforce identity, I guess, but it helps to validate these places because I suppose you've got to understand, all these places have kind of been in danger of losing their minority languages, been in danger of losing these bits of culture and heritage. So I guess stories and then being quite accessible ways to understand, you know, are people I think are really great and interesting tools to kind of get people to appreciate the culture of a place.

I jump straight on my emails to see whether I could get in touch with English Heritage.

So currently I am just responding to an email, a very positive email from Win Scutt, who is the senior properties curator for English Heritage, and he is very keen to talk to me about this site in Herefordshire.

I have taken a two hour train journey from Oxford to Hereford, and then continued on for 30 minutes in the car, which has been the perfect way to see and admire the local landscape. Hereford. It lies on the border with Wales, hugged by the Malvern Hills and the Black Mountains. The area, I agree, is definitely steeped in violence, and you can see why C.S. Lewis took so much influence from the area.

So there are old tales telling of Herefordshire as a battle ground between the Welsh, the Anglo Saxons, the Danes and the Normans, and the Domesday Survey declared parts of the Welsh Marches under its control, leading to countless castles being built in the area. And we haven't come across any yet, but I'm sure we will. This area is definitely steeped in violence.

Old tales tell of Herefordshire as a battleground between the Welsh Anglo Saxons, Danes and Normans. The Domesday Survey described parts of the Welsh Marches under its control, leading to countless castles being built in this area. Unrest caused the construction of a stone bridge over the Wye River in the year 1110, and fortified walls around the city for protection from attacks.

In 1645, Hereford saw a three month siege by parliamentary troops, who eventually overpowered the King Street. With its newfound peace, the city flourished in other ways, and in the late 1700s it became renowned for its brewing and cider production. This was also around the same time that rail links were extended to Hereford and a canal constructed from Gloucester, although this is operation just 40 years later, so modern progress continued slowly and due to its agricultural wealth, industry and manufacturing, it basically developed gradually compared to other English counties, which we usually see breaking out of the landscape.

Here it feels very untainted, like going back in time quarters of a mile, turn left onto stone. That's a very steep hill. That's is even called Arthur's Stone Lane. Pretty intense. The destination is on your right, Arthur's Stone. Yes, there we are. Right. It's just a feels. Arthur's stone looms high. In the hills above Hereford is Golden Valley, a 6000 year old Neolithic burial chamber formed of nine upright stones with an enormous capstone, estimated to weigh more than 25 tons and measuring 30ft long by 70ft wide on top, it is a sight entirely shrouded in an air of mystery and legend.

Ancient stories tell of King Arthur, hero of yore, who vanquished a fierce giant atop this rock, leaving behind two deep indentations like burns from his elbows. The onlooker of this battle remains to this day a reminder of courage and power. Here is Wynn Scott, senior properties curator for English Heritage, to tell us more about the site. Oliver Stone stands above the village of Dore Stone, up on the ridge, and you can actually look down to the village from it.

So it's in a really commanding position. not sure whether that is so that it could be seen also that it could see outwards. perhaps both, but it comprises nine stones with this enormous, massive capstone perched on the top of it. That capstone is split into three pieces. And that's what gave rise to C.S. Lewis basing his story of Aslan lying on the great stone table and, it being broken in half.

So that probably inspired that. But of course, it's also inspired an Arthurian legend, as so many places around Britain have. So in medieval times, it was quite natural for people to try to explain phenomena. They might be natural phenomena like Arthur's Seat in Edinburgh, or they might be prehistoric stone circles and stone chambered tombs and things like that.

They needed to explain them so often they would resort to and adapt existing legends, such as the idea that Britain was colonized by giants or inhabited by giants, and then settled by the descendants of Troy who came along and slew the giants. But that is one legend. It's sort of mixed with this one. Then King Arthur's post with saloon, a giant on top of Arthur's stone and his imprint is supposed to be still in top of the stone.

But I think you've got a choice of hollows in the top of a stone to explain that particular legend. So really, it's medieval people trying to explain, phenomena in the landscape. Stone monuments are becoming increasingly popular, not just from archaeologists, but all sorts of people who find that they're inspired. Perhaps they get energy from the stones, and they're all sorts of pseudo archaeological, theories that abound.

And you can follow all sorts of sites on Facebook and on the internet where, you can share your experiences of stone circles and stone rows and all sorts of things with lots of other people. There are thousands and thousands. I think it might be 13,000 members of the ancient stone bothering community on Facebook. So our English Heritage Neolithic monuments attract thousands of people from not just from Britain, but from all over the world.

And of course, places like Stonehenge and Avebury over the top of those charts. But Arthur's Stone attracts very many people. We don't have a people counter on site, so we just have to estimate it. But whenever I've been working there, particularly on the excavations, there are always people coming to visit it. And during the excavations that we had last year, we actually had 3000 visitors in the space of a month.

So that was unusual because we were digging. But there are always people there, so it's incredibly popular, and people really do pick out that site on the map and make a pilgrimage to it. From talking to when I understand in greater detail that we don't exactly know why Arthur was connected to this particular site, but Arthur was connected to so many monuments from pre-history, and obviously it doesn't belong to that period at all.

The conventional view, whether you believe it or not, is that Arthur lived in post-Roman Britain and led the Britons against the Saxons, but the legends had already existed in the 13th century. In fact, Arthur was this big Hollywood name of that time. People would have shared these Hollywood romances about Arthur or Tristan and dissolves Arthur. Kidding. A giant must have therefore been the only explanation people could have conjured up when confronted with the great Big Tores on Dartmoor or Arthur's Seat in Edinburgh.

These romances gave some sort of magic and reason to great big stone monuments that many in the 13th century could not understand. Hi, hello. I was just taking a pondering moment. It was really lovely out there. Shall we, should we head to the church? Yes. Let's head to Saint Cuthbert's. Lovely. So I'm standing in the graveyard just outside the church, waiting for Joanne to arrive and just a few minutes early.

And, I mean, it is so breathtakingly beautiful and picturesque here. I'm sure you can hear the twittering of the birds behind me. It is so peaceful, and I really feel like we are isolated from the village. We're quite a ways away. We drove down this very winding, narrow track. It's right next to this beautiful manorial house. I mean, it's absolutely breathtaking.

You can really tell that this beautiful church is lying in a very lonely meadow near the slow moving River Wye. And the name gives a clue to its provenance. So Holme Lacy actually translates as meadow belonging to the Lacey's and so home. Lacey village existed at the time of the Domesday Book in 1086, when the land was owned by the Bishop of Hereford and rented by Roger de Lacey.

And so the story of this very historic church of Saint Caspar at home. Lacey is also a story of two families, the Lacey's and the Scudder Moors. And when we enter in a moment when Joanne arrives, we will be looking at some of the other more tombs, and over the subsequent centuries, the delay season. The bishops of Hereford squabbled over the manor here, which is right next to us.

But the Lacey's were eventually ousted by the Scudamore family. It sounds very Romeo and Juliet, so really, I'm hoping there is a tragic love story in there somewhere and it's got them all. Family came here in 1419. The Moors rose to National importance, with Sir James Skidmore being immortalized in Spenser's Faerie Queene as the ideal of chivalry and the skirt, most of whom Lacey finally dies out in 1909, and the estate passed through several hands before becoming a hotel.

Hello. Hi. Joanne Parker is associate professor of Victorian literature and culture at the University of Exeter. Her research focuses on the relationships between history, legend, place, identity, all in the 19th century, and she has not only been working on the past. In its place project examining the history of memory in English and Welsh locations, but has previously researched Victorian reinventions of the past, particularly the mythologization of historical figures.

So from Alfred the Great, King Arthur to Robin Hood. And what's more, she's a fan of megalithic monuments. Yeah, I'm Vicki, by the way. I'm Leigh-Anne. Oh, nice to meet you, too. Did you want to come inside? And then you can. Yeah. Chill out for a bit. I like that. And how old are you by? I'm 11 and... Matilda. I'm 13.5. So, Joanne, what is your first impression of this church? Oh, I love it. I love the way it's what it is. It's kind of short and squat and it's. It's surrounded by the hills and the trees and. Oh, I can hear in the background it's birdsong. It's lovely. I mean, we've been coming up the M5, you could say busy.

And the place we got to here, the prettier it got, you know, we've got more and more trees, we got big skies and, and it's just up. It feels so peaceful being here at last. Yeah, absolutely. And I think its position is really important to its identity actually, because the fact that it is so far away from what feels like civilization, it's out really desolate, isolated.

And as you say, we can hear the twittering of the birds. It's beautiful. Do you think that's important in some way? Yes. Yeah. It's quite unusual because normally you expect the church to be at the center of the village. You know, it's it's the center of village life and stuff. And so it's, it does have it has a sort of air of mystery to it from there.

You know, when you come here, you think, oh, I see it on its own. And now apparently it was originally in the middle of a village, and then the village was abandoned for whatever reason. And it's now a mile down the road, but it leaves it here kind of as a sort of as a little bit of a mystery and a relic of the past.

Absolutely a forgotten relic. I love that, absolutely. And I love this sort of illusion that you have when you look at it. So it's quite as you as you reach. It is quite immediately noticeable that this feature of the church is that the nave and the south are almost identical in size, creating this sense of great height and space.

And you have that so towering amongst the trees surrounding it. And we have, oh, I can see some bats flying around now because we're getting to that point in the evening. So yes. Oh, I can hear the bells across the valley. Yeah, yeah. I guess once the bells from here would we fly back? Absolutely, absolutely. As we're speaking about the desolate but picturesque positioning of this church, my mind harks back to a very fitting.

Yes. Also my favorite poem by Wordsworth. Five years have passed. Five summers with the length of five long winters. And again I hear these waters rolling from their mountain springs with a soft inland murmur. Once again do I behold these steep and lofty cliffs that, on a wild, secluded scene, impress thoughts of more deep seclusion, and connect the landscape with the quiet of the sky?

These evocative words came from Wordsworth's poem lines, composed a few miles above Tintern Abbey. On revisiting the banks of the Wye during a tour in July 1798. If you would like to hear the full rendering of our wonderful voice actor Adrian MacLean, you can listen to part two of this podcast episode.


It's interesting that you say it's quite an odd setting, being far from the village and right next to this great house, because actually it was built in a floodplain that was really quite bizarre. Really. Do you think it would have been regularly submerged? It's a quite an odd place, I think, to build a church. I think that apparently the land was given to the diocese, but by William the Conqueror, wasn't it?


I think they drew the short straw. They actually land, I think, for that. But the house and church, they absolutely did. Next, I question Joanne about the Anglo-Saxon Saint Cuthbert, the patron saint of the North, and the named icon of this particular church. He remained popular after the Reformation, and he is known for a number of things. So he was a monk and started at a monastery of Melrose.

He is often depicted on horseback, arriving at the monastery in a rather privileged way, carrying a spear and attended by a servant. He was also a preacher, a bishop, a hermit on the islands of Afan and most relevant to today's episode, a confidant of kings. I guess that's interesting, because you wouldn't really expect to find him down here, you know, in the border of Wales.

00:22:48:16 - 00:23:14:05

And he's, you know, as you say, he's a he's a northern saint, you know, he's he was at one point the main saint of the north of England really, you know, and, and you up in kind of the border of Scotland and Northumbria. But it's amazing the way that his, you know, his story spread. And so, you know, it's, I mean, in London there's, there's Victorian churches to Saint Cuthbert so that there's church, Catholic churches all over the country because he, you know, I think partly because in the eighth century Bede.

But a life of him so he did a really good PR job on him and, and you know, so Cuthbert story spread all over and we know that he's been, you know, admired all over the country for centuries, even. And then, you know, there's a story about the ninth century King Alfred, who apparently Cuthbert appeared to him before a battle and promised him victory in the battle.

And as a proof that this was was true here, this this promise, he he made a frozen river team with fish. So there was lots of fish for Alfred's army to eat. And another story says that he appeared as a beggar disguised as a beggar to Alfred, and to test the king's virtue, you know, and and and as soon as that he was starving, he needed some some food.

Alfred only had a small piece of bread, but he shared it with the beggar. and so because of that, he then got victory in the battle. So there's all these sort of kind of, you know, medieval stories about Cuthbert connecting him to a southern English king. What he, you know, in a in a different century. but it really shows that his fame spread all across England.

and he became a real sort of, you know, a kind of icon of early Christianity and, you know, a really popular saint, all over the country, I think. And, and as you say, you know, he was very I think he's very charismatic. So he, you know, he he became the choir of Melrose, he became bishop of Lindisfarne.

He was given very senior positions because I think he was quite good at networking with, with the sort of aristocracy of the day. At the same time he also, you know, became, he became a hermit for many years, living on the foreign islands. so he he didn't he although he was very successful, he didn't really embrace the sort of, you know, that the sort of celebrity role he was sort of hit away from it for many years.

But after his death, he's probably one of the saints who moved most, you know, his body moved all around. He where he was in Ripon for a time. He was in Durham for a time. He was at Chester Street. He was on Lindisfarne, but and, and was also disinterred many different times. And he kept finding interesting things in his, in his tomb as well at different points.

And do you think that's why he's been mythologized? I think he was partly I mean, apparently during his life he he had a reputation for healing people miraculously. So that kind of helped him become a really popular saint and probably beat soup to that up a bit as well in his account of his life. But it's the fact that they say that, you know, 11 years after his death, they opened his tomb and he was intact and perfect.

Also, you know, meant that more and more people wanted to to go to the proximity of his tomb to sort of in the hope that they would be healed. And he would or he would intercede for them, you know, and grant them sort of whatever they wanted, whether that was forgiveness or something more, more worldly. That's so interesting.

I find it also really compelling, the fact that in medieval tales he was seen as this figure. He would appear to Alfred's in such guises, a bit like those wise, sort of mysterious figures like Merlin that we see in King Arthur. Do you think there's a connection there? And yes, I think he's very much like Arthur. I think, you know, in the Victorian period, Alfred and Arthur are both vying, ready to be the national icon, you know, to to be the sort of emblem of British ness and the best and greatest ever British king.

And they both had these mythological, legendary elements, their stories, you know, so that's the story of Cuthbert appearing to to Alfred and various stories about him, burnt cakes and this sort of thing. and and on the other hand, all that sort of magical elements of the Arthurian story. And, you know, the 19th century was a time when they were looking for great kings.

They were kind, worried about the possibility of political revolution. They could see revolutions happening all over Europe. And, they thought, you know, it's really important that we have strong leadership in this country if we're going to avoid a revolution. So they get really interested in these great legendary kings who can offer kind of models of ideal kingship and leadership.

Joanna's point is particularly poignant here. The Scots Moore family were patrons of the church from medieval times until the 20th century, and their monuments are a spectacle to see. John Scudamore, who died in 1571, lies beside his wife on a team chest decked out in full armor. James Scudamore, who died in 1668, was instead a Roman costume and a great wedding cake of a war monument, possibly by grinning gibbons, and we see them self fashioning themselves in death as figures of power and tapping into a time that has a particular importance for them, whether it be a great emperor of Rome or a medieval knight.

So we're looking for a knight. 1909 and 99 on the back. You can help us find it. And it's not that easy. In in the in the dark. Oh, I think it might be sweet. to the grand gates.

And then he's a little bit tricky to see, but here we are. So we found the memorial, and this is to Edwin Scudamore. Stan hope. So. He died in 1933. And here he is pictured as this heroic knight. Why do you think he would have been so enamoured with this, with this form? Well, presenting himself as a knight because he looks like he's guarding the church, doesn't he?

That's fantastic. Behind ten. Oh, there he is at the top. And he speaks now quite often in medieval iconography. A dog like that, it represents faithfulness or fidelity to show that he was faithful to his family or his country or where he came from. so I think it's probably his. Maybe he may also have just had pet dog that he wanted, that he wanted to memorialize.

So it might be a mixture of the two, because the British do love their dogs, so they and their horses. I love the fact he's got the dog, their dog behind him, and he's seen and he's looking out across the countryside through the gate. Now, I think that's what's really interesting is, you know, he's he died in 1933, so there's no way he ever wore armor or carried a shield or a sword.

Really? One of the patsies was up there. Yes. That's a sweeping about him. It's all very magical. But I think that's if you know what some. That's that I think that's a reason why he's in armor. And, and I think it's because, he was quite a special man in 1915. He was given what's called, he became a Knight of the Garter.

So it's the highest honour in the British Empire, apart from the George Cross, and the Victoria Cross. It's, too it's, you know, in the kind of honours list, it's right up at the top. And, it links anybody who's giving it, it thinks and back, right back to the medieval times because it was an honour that was established by Edward the Third in 1348.

So receiving that honour goes back centuries and centuries. So it would be something that he was incredibly proud of, because the only ever 24 Knights of the Garter in Britain, as well as the King and Prince of Wales. So I think that he, he's linking himself back to that, that history of Knights of the Garter who were always rewarded for, kind of, you know, absolutely, exemplary service to the crown of loyalty to the nation.

And they're part of an elite that almost like King Arthur's Knights of the Round Table in the old days. So the modern equivalent of that, really. so although he was never a knight in battle, he was, in a way, still a knight. And and so he's being buried remembering that and and picturing him as, as a proper knight.

It's remarkable, isn't it? He's following in that ancient tradition, and he is overlooking and guarding this church. It's wonderful. Well, you have definitely worked for your supper. Should we go have some dinner? Go to the pub.

Welcome to found Hope, where the pass still echoes through its oldest pub, The Green Man. Legends claim it was established in 1485, but official records have trace its roots back to 1693, when it was first known as the Naked Boy. This historic establishment has seen it all from serving as a magistrate’s court and coaching in to hosting famous patrons like Tom spring, England's heavyweight bareknuckle champion.

Even Colonel Birch returning victorious with his girlfriend Roaring Meg after capturing Goodrich Castle. And they spent a night here. But beyond its rich history lies the heart of Oak Society. Founded in 1791 for a monthly subscription fee that covered illness and funeral costs for its members. While the side of the society may have ceased in the 1980s, its annual Club Walk day still draws crowds every year.

Some say the pub's name is linked to Jack in the green, a symbol of sadness and sacrifice. But I believe it pays homage to John Green, the first landlord recorded when the name appeared in 1707. So come on in and raise a glass to the green man, where the stories of the past still live on. I was quite interested in how pubs and in and taverns became associated with the Green Man.

It seems like this sort of starts to happen around the 17th century. That's right. Yeah, yeah. Do you know much more about that? Wow. I think it kind of started out well. We knew that by the 16th century. there's lots of references to green men, kind of, forming parts of kind of pageants and processions. And so I think it as far as, you know, I think it was a pattern, you'd be covered in greenery, possibly even painted green.

their role was to be at the front of the procession and, and kind of clearing the crowds out of the way to let the rest of the procession come through. And it might be Saint George's Day, it might be May day, but some sort of festivity generally. And I think they kind of dotted around with that sometimes with a big club, sometimes they had firecrackers that they'd set off.

And so they were, they're quite terrifying in some ways. But I think the crowds love that you know how to do it, really do. They brought this theatrical element that really brought people together. I love that totally. Yeah. And then they'd be kind of funny, anarchic and quite wild figures that were sort of, you know, clearing people out of the way so that and then that sort of procession or whatever occasion it was could come through.

And I think because of that kind of slightly wild, anarchic sort of element to the character, they, you know, they became associated with kind of alcohol intoxication. And so eventually it started in, I think in the 17th century, you started getting pubs and breweries calling themselves Degree Man and sort of linking themselves to the figure. But our conversation is interrupted by the arrival of our dinner.

What do you do with how do you want to enjoy your dinner? It's been lovely. Yeah, it was great in the sense.

As if we were going back to the church in the dark. Guys. it's quite exciting. His. You know, he was only one star, but like, so many people have been there before. Yeah, like, because it's such an old church, you can almost feel like how they used to be there. And now it's like just stars. And yeah, it's really cozy inside.

The church is really fresh. You know, when you go outside, it feels quite magical in the dark. He's he got it's such a lovely light sun setting. There's like lots of trees and birds and bats involved, light, as well as a very cute little mouse, which is just by the entrance. And as we arrived back at Saint Cuthbert's, the church is illuminated in moonlight.

Oh, greeted on the right with this peaceful maritime memorial. Wow. Absolutely. The moment Joanna and I stepped through the front doors of the old church, we are transported back in time. The air is thick with the musty smell of centuries old. Stonework and shafts of light fill the vast interior through leaded stained glass windows. In the nave is a striking window showing two of King Arthur's knights, given in memory of Archibald Lucas, two who died in World War One.

His father, Sir Robert, is commemorated in the Wonderful glass in the Great East Window, showing Saint Michael wearing souls. Now let's look at look at the lovely stained glass. Isn't it lovely? There's a light coming through. It's beautiful. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it really juxtaposes against this. Against the stone, the sunset, the reading creates these different colours and it's a different produce that you get in Victorian stone.

Stained glass. Absolutely. In the red it's the red. And the blue really are so pungent.

This one is red about I think it's, it's mosaic from earlier glass. I think they took some page fragments of medieval glass. And then in the 19th century, they. So the mosaic them back together. So it's. Yeah, it's it's, Yeah, it looks really interesting, doesn't it? You can kind of get a glimpse of what it was originally, but all jumbled up.

I think I found it. Here we are. Yeah, absolutely. So Galahad supports. So why do you think there is an Arthurian window in home Lacy church? Oh, I, I think it might be the fact that it's there's quite a sad story behind the family that had the estate. Bailey. Very. so Archibald he's commemorated in this window was that he was the youngest of three sons.

His father bought the Holme Lacy estate, including the church, only in 1909, 1910. He really didn't get to enjoy it for very long because he died in 1915. but before he died tragically, his two elder sons both died in the very first year of the First World War. So two sons died in 1914 fighting in France. He died a year later, probably, you know, broken hearted, probably. Really, let's say tragic. And then in 1918, the one surviving son, Archibald, who's commemorated here, also died, in France. And I think a really sad thing. He didn't even die fighting, which I guess he would have, you know, he grew up, what he born 19, 1884.

So, you know, he would have grown up on these Victorian stories of boys, adventure stories and stories of knights and armor and chivalry and, you know, all those ideals of warfare. and then when he and his brothers, you know, actually went to France in the First World War II, it would have been so different from the stories that they, they grown up on.

And tragically, then he died of pneumonia in the trenches. So he didn't even die. That sort of glorious death on the battlefield that he might have imagined that in the worst case scenario, you know, that's at least what he how he would die. so I feel like this window, you know, it probably commemorates his ideal.

And, you know, what he imagined he would do when he went to fight for his country? That he would be a bold knight, you know, ever loyal and true. Like it says in the glass. So it's, I suppose it's a commemoration of those ideals in the sense that he and, the two plotters, probably.

I mean, they went off to France, where we crossed the aisle and find ourselves standing before four towering tombs dressed in marble and alabaster carvings depicting members of the Scudder Moore family. John and Sybil's effigies are particularly striking. Sir John in his armour, with his feet resting on a line well, Lady Sybil is dressed in an embroidered gown with a delicate Amanda hanging from her neck.

Every detail has been painstakingly sculpted and appears to be frozen in time. Nearby, set against the north wall of the chancel, is a grandiose marble monument to James Skidmore, who died in 1688, which I mentioned earlier. So the carving may be Greenland gibbons. It certainly looks like his style. And Sir James here is really interesting. He is depicted in Roman costume, his elbow resting on a cushion, rather as if he has just been indulging in a Roman feast.

And he's looking out to the stained glass windows with a very, sort of very contented look on his face. So now these are the little ledges that people would have used to rest on during long prayers, and which are decorated with these fantastical carved creatures which very much fits our theme of today, this mythology, this mythologizing of different creatures in this magical landscape.

And so these are also known as misericordia, which and seats are usually found in the choir of a church or cathedral designed to fold away when they're not in use on the inside of the seat has. Let's have a quick look. Has a oh that's for that has a small shelf that's a use a can again it's can you use.

Oh and there's a really big spider in there. Oh I went away from that. That was a really really big. Oh it's so big. It makes it was really big. It was like that big. It's not on me is it? I mean, that Scott scared me more than the mythical beasts that were carved onto them. And there is a little horned devil on that one, so that's quite okay with the spider.

I it it's like it was intended. I'm just going to check the spider wasn't on me. The underside of the seat has a small shelf that the user can lean against to reduce discomfort during long periods of standing during services. And the name is in fact derived from the Latin misericordia, meaning mercy, and as a result, that they are sometimes known as mercy seats or pity seats, which I think is very fitting.

As with much wood work in churches and cathedrals, we all know that their records are often very skillfully carved, showing a wide variety of different subjects, and we've seen them across many of our churches. Within the churches, conservation trusts. And we have so many different little fantastical figures here. I'm just looking round and we have what looks like perhaps a Phoenix like almost rising from the ashes.

And then we have another little horned devil, and we have what looks like an angel. And one of them. And then we have this very little pooch, this little puppy. I think that's my favourite. I think this would be produced by hand. It touches like this. They loved they saw these as representing the ideal, you know, saw them as kind of more natural than, than the modern world, and much more spiritual than just sort of know Victorian society.

And they could feel closer to God almost in their setting as well. That's a famous ideology of John Ruskin, too, right? That you would feel out in nature very close to God. And then he tried to replicate that in his artwork. So trying to replicate that within the crafts, the arts and crafts of the church and the interior fabric feels like they're very much trying to get to that divine point, basically that the, the pointed arches of, you know, the medieval churches, you know, they, they replicate the boughs of trees meeting in the forest.

So, you know, more natural for that reason, too. I love that idea. And it's very cost related as well as it makes you feel like you're very much a a medieval castle as well. When the turrets looking out. I think the thing that's funny that the it's mentioned about the, the Skidmore, monument where he's dressed as a Roman as a sort of a reminder that everybody looks back to a different bit of history and, and, you know, sort of in terms of their identity.

So he chose he wanted to be identified with the Romans, and the Archibald Lucas wanted to be identified with a medieval knight. You know, we always look back to different aspects of the past. but we're sort of trying to develop our identity, as always, an element of nostalgia and backwards looking, involved in it. Everybody wants to escape somewhere, you know?

And it's great to escape him. I mean, sleeping here for the night, eating. You know, you sort of feel like you could feel like hood in a castle or, you know, yeah. Somewhere in the past. Definitely doesn't feel like 21st century. It isn't it? And you can barely hear the roads. I mean, we're very much separated from what feels like 21st-century civilisation.

It's lovely. Yeah, I think you could pretend you were 19th. And I'm sure most. And indeed we do. Our camp beds are arranged in a row in front of the north transept. In the night. I take the camp bed at the end of the row closest to the chancel, and just before turning in for the night and enjoying our sleeping bags, we ponder upon our magical experience with a book of Arthurian tales.

So I've got a book here called Arthurian Legend and yeah, these are retold from medieval texts with extensive knights. And so we have very famous stories like the Coming of King Arthur, The Enchantments of Merlin.

00:44:52:21 - 00:45:13:10

And now we're surrounded by fairy lights. So it's very magical. Yeah. Lovely. Well, we can all dream of Arthurian tales tonight. Good night. Everybody.

Morning. I came out to find you through the lovely morning sky. Oh, lovely and peachy. And like lots of mist hanging among the trees. And, it's beautiful this morning. And you're right by the night. Oh, yeah. We were having a better look at him in daylight. Yeah. Yes. Especially with the sun shines and it's, very much glowing upon him.

And defining him. It's it's lovely. He does? Yeah. Yeah. He sees the sees the sunrise every morning. Lucky. And, So how did you sleep? Oh, pretty well. Yeah. We always wake up early, but, Well. What? We have to wake up at half six. Yeah. It's lovely waking up early here because we woke up and the sun was coming through the stained glass.

And so we went creeping outside to see what was going on outside. You get to experience the best bit in the morning. It is then time for some morning indulgence. So we delve into a well-stocked picnic hamper and so here we have some pastries. I got extra we got extra chocolate ones, cause didn't I? I thought the girls would prefer the chocolate is always a scoop of chocolate one.

And then there's some jam here for the plain croissants and raspberries and some yogurts. Oh, do you like any cheese? A lot of stuff and stuff. Oh.

If you would like to make some memories, why not give champing a try to everything you need to know about champing, please do visit: https://champing.co.uk/

The champing season happens in those warmer months between March and October, so book now. 

Nights in the Nave has been written and produced by me, Victoria, Jenner. My guests have been Professor Joanne Parker and special thanks goes to Fiona Silk, who runs champing, our champing assistants, and Sian Esther Powell from Wheel Martyn Museum, Win Scutt from English Heritage. Sound Recording was managed by Leigh-Anne Beattie, editing by Jamie Reed, music by Nick Varey and design by George Allen. 

Come to a sleepover at our place. This is a Churches Conservation Trust podcast.

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